King’s Tap Becoming Center of Friction (Updated)
LATEST UPDATE: So we contacted one of the original managers of King’s Tap, a bar in dispute in Sinchon, to flesh out a backstory. Instead, we received a short response that really didn’t clarify the situation beyond what most people have already gathered on their own:
King’s Tap is now being managed by people other than the original founders, amidst a purported legal battle over contracts and leases.
Perhaps Matt and Dave’s legal counsel told them not to divulge more details at risk of spoiling their legal case while pending, but in spite of that, they are attempting to initiate a foreign-patron boycott through facebook without giving so much as a reason WHY foreigners shouldn’t go there.
The bar, now being run entirely by their Korean ‘leaseholders,’ is becoming a meeting point for cultural friction as the largely foreign clientele encounters a King’s Tap run like any Korean HOF. Imagine Korean waiters asking Joe Fratboy if he wants a side of corn with his Pish & Chifs and you know where things can get sour.
What we are seeing from the two original managers, though, is disappointing. They have taken out the much cliched race-card. Race-baiting in the form of ‘bad Korean businessmen vs. nice foreigners’ may cause alarm when we talk about the treatment of South Asian laborers in some South Korean factories but it simply doesn’t play well as a story when two middle class entrepreneurs spar over profits with their partners.
It is unfortunate that the two bar entrepreneurs are in a sticky business situation, and it is incidental that they are foreigners. It is irrelevant that there are Korean businessmen involved, and it is only a wild conspiracy theory to float the fear of ‘the Koreans’ who consistently rip off foreign businessmen.
Matt and Dave have reframed their internal business dispute by tossing it into the dangerous dragon’s teeth of race politics. By inserting the words “the Koreans” into their story, they are playing on their constituents’ fears and perhaps bigotry in the hopes of building support.
Do they even know what kind of ignorance they are playing on? Do they take customers for fools? Some have already expressed their support on facebook along the lines of “Yeah, don’t let the Koreans get away with it.” Everyone loses when this becomes a korean vs. foreigner fight. Does it even make sense? What kind of solidarity is this and really, against what kind of oppression?
This whole hubub could just as easily be settled quietly without drawing customers into their business dysfunction, but it does make for great discussion. Is it really any of our business as customers (considering none of the facts of either side have surfaced whatsoever) to take sides on the basis that a white dude and a Korean-American are more familiar to us than the ‘other’?
Like the poster described below, it really takes a lot more legal savvy and business sense to open a bar beyond a good idea. From the customer’s standpoint, does it really matter who is behind the bar?
I think whatever it is, and however it turns out, we can all refrain from seeing things in such cynical terms as “There the Koreans go again with contracts.” It’s much healthier to view it as, “Oh, well, looks like samba night’s here to stay at King’s Tap.” And move on with our lives. There’s no heroic struggle between evil Koreans and virtuous foreigners here, as far as anyone can tell. It’s just business.
* * below is the original post * *
Okay, okay. This is not a story and unfortunately we don’t have the facts. We wrote a review on King’s Tap featuring a new London-styled bar in Sinchon that was growing steadily by word of mouth and through facebook.
Then, an announcement was made on their facebook board that the bar was closed due to a dispute with their landlord or leaseholder. Here’s the message in full:
* * * *
The King’s Tap will be closed until further notice.
We are having trouble with the current lease holders, who have gone back on their word.
In lieu of making more money for them, we’ve decided to shut the doors until the issue can be resolved.
Thank you for all your kind remarks and we will let you know as soon as we know anything.
You can expect and great big re-opening party when all this is resolved.
Cheers,
Matt and Dave
* * * *
A tipster just visited the bar last night and, as though a scene from Body Snatchers, observed that none of the previous managers or employees were working there. And oddly, there was a lot of grating samba music.
What’s the word on the street? Is there skullduggery in Sinchon? Did some cha-cha loving suits bully their way into a foreigner-owned bar? We’re on the story…
–Editor
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The King’s Tap is done. The “real” owners of the bar are Korean- not foreign, and what do you think happened when they started seeing some profit? Grabbed it up all for themselves and ousted the foreigners working there. The bar tenders/managers were never really any kind of owners.In fact they don’t even have any king of visa to be here in Korea, much less own a business. They just went in there and pimped it out with foreign stuff and promised to bring in the foreigner crowd for a slice of the profits cuz the Korean owners had no idea how to run a truely foreign style bar. Lesson: don’t go setting up a great business here in Korea unless your legal paper work is rock-solid. Then triple check exactly what the business arrangement is and have it signed in the presence of a notary/lawyer/judge…in blood.Seems so elementary that i have a hard time understanding the naievetay of these guys.Now the only recourse left to them is to prostate themselves to the foreigner crowd and beg and plead for a “boycott” of their own bar. Not exactly the savviest of business maneuvers.For anyone of us foreigners who have dealt with Korean hagwon owners knows that even when you do have a signed contract it is often the case that it can be difficult getting what is due to you. You think Korean bar owners (gangsters) would be any better? I’m guessing not.
There are successful foreigner owned establishments throughout Seoul. I happen to be one. The business fundamentals of ownership here in Korea are identical to anything you’ll see in the west. Running a business is not all the about snazzy advertisements and flash in the pan gimmicks to lure in foreigners into your place. It begins and ends in the backroom negociations will all interested parties. Don’t hand a great idea on a silver platter, wrapped in a bow to Koreans without a legal agreement unless you enjoy being robbed out of house and home.
Guess it’s back to the classroom for these former teachers…in more way than one.
I agree with having to be very aware of what your business arrangement should be BEFORE going into business. But getting the rug pulled out from under you just sucks. I’m not Korean bashing but what the owners are doing to the foreigners is just completely wrong. The legal parameters here and justice system on a whole is just not accessible to foreigners. The scales are deffinately tipped in favor of the Koreans first and foremost. Either way, this sounds like a total nightmare as the last thing i would ever want to do here is get involved in a long drawn out civil litigation suit with the natives. Sounds like to death nell has been rung for these guys. Too bad.
Yeah, i agree. Who cares who’s pouring the beers and taking home their cut. If it’s a cool joint and I’m treated like a valued customer I’ll still go there. Why the hell would they try to turn this thing into a “protest march” seems a bit silly. I think most of us have better causes to get behind than saving a “foreigner” bar. Besides i don’t see this as a foreigners vs. Koreans. It’s business vs. business. And frankly i don’t give a darn who comes out on top, but having to sit and listen to them grovel to us for sympathy puts me off and it’s just bad business. You don’t air your dirty laundry in public. Suck it up, make good decisions and stop giving your own business a black eye and public floggings for all to see. Weird decision making all around. Anyway, i’ll be there tmmwr for Arsenal and Guinnes.
I buy my 420 from the foreign bartender there. Hope he doesn’t get deported.
So after reading both articles and comments related to this turn of events regarding one of my favorite bars in Seoul, I’m a bit torn.
On the one hand, we have a situation that cannot necessarily be fully understood by those outside of the legal discussion. This is why I’m a bit embarrassed for the editor of this article, who, through his/her own false syllogistic reasoning, has made his/her own assumptions about both the legal and racial connotations that is kind of situation has invoked. And it’s dangerous to make assumptions when you are working off of partial, incomplete, or just plain bad intel. (Iraq, anyone)
I think that it was irresponsible of him/her to do so and think that he/she was in fact out completely of line.
That being said, the article in and of itself was obscenely biased toward proving the antithesis of the former bar owners justifications for asking the clientelle to support all of the work that they had put into completely re-vamping the former London Pub.
Why the editor was so keen on using this as his primary focus of the article is, once again, in and of itself fuel to the racist fire which it fledgingly attempts to quell.
But seeing as how I’m already typing, I’ll go ahead and answer the question you posed. Should we care? Do people who have worked their asses off deserve loyalty from those who have frequented the bar in the past? Do you shoot Lassie after he pulls Timmy out of the well because he didn’t get the time and date stamped by a notary? Ok, that’s a little off topic, but you get my point.
I do agree that I don’t think this is about foreigners vs. Koreans, but rather an internal business dispute. But the fact is that the message from the foreign owners Does not stir up racial admonitions unless you are looking for them. Fact: the former owners are foreign. Fact: The current lease holders are Korean, and yes, this situation has happened before. So where’s the racial instigation? Where’s the comment that reads; “those lousy slant eyes????”. It is up to the human mind to perceive racial instigation out of these seemingly neutral words, and frankly, what better way to jazz up an article???
I am sympathetic to the owners of the Kings Tap because before they arrived, the (formerly named) London Pub was a complete disaster whose decor as lighting was horrific and offered a total of 2 beers that were not Korean in an “English-style” Pub. The dart boards, foosball, Golden Tee, and the only bar shuffle board in Seoul was introduced on their behalf. They did an amazing job with the room and I think that they have earned my loyalty ten times over.
It’s very easy to be sarcastic about things that you not knowledgable about, or have no connection to. It is much harder to have the courage to take a stand against injustices in your life and do everything in your power to hold on to something you have worked so hard for. Even if it means asking help from your friends.
So thank you, whoever wrote this article, because without you I would have no antithesis. I for one think that loyalty, honoring one’s word, and friendship actually count for something.
Good day.
(on a side not, who the hell listens to samba???? anyone????)
Yeah, I’d have to agree with Conor that there is no racial instigation from King’s Tap but there is definitely an attempt at an angle to generate support.
Take a look at parts of their facebook message:
“Don’t let Korean businessmen push foreigners around.
The Koreans have gone back on their word and are trying to squeeze us out of the business.”
It seems to me that the KingsTap guys are trying to pull my sympathy card rather than my race card, since many teachers in Korea may have developed some sort of distrust of Koreans in a specific industry (like hagwons) but not necessarily harbor distrust or racism towards Koreans in general.
I think the writers in the site tend to like discussion so this is another attempt at drawing us in. Look at their Palin discussion!
-Josh
Skip2myLou’s got it right on the nail. This is a business vs. business fight that is trying to be spilled over into a korean vs. foreigner fight. That’s out of line, and while not racist, treads on slippery ice. Imagine how silly it would be if I opened a bar in Mexico, and my message were:
“Hey don’t go to my bar anymore because these Mexican guys came in and pushed me out. Don’t give the Mexicans a single peso until I am in charge of our foreigner bar. Don’t let Mexicans push us around.”
FAIL on so many levels.
True colors. The frat boy crowd rules at the King’s Tap. Mysogeonstic bigotted frat-boys. Check the facebook board if you need clarification; “kick some Korean ass”. These are the types of people running this place.
It doesn’t bother me though cuz these lame ass teachers/ wanna be business men fell flat on there their faces right out of the gate.
It’s one thing to have those types of conversations behind doors with your frat boy buddies but to instigate that kind of talk in a public forum only shows your true colors, beside your lacl of business sense and social awareness (or lack there of). Boycott the king’s tap you say? Sure, no problem.
Formerly “London Pub”? Have you checked the sign on the building. It always has and always will be “London Pub”. They couldn’t even get their own sign. Doubt they have a legal claim to the place. Check the website as well.
Have you seen the comments on Facelame? Geez I’m glad i don’t have jerk friends like that to stay stupid stuff on my behalf. These guys take one wrong turn after another. Keep your buddies at home. Don’t let them publicly speak for you and your business, which by the way depends on koreans and foreigners alike.
I’m not boycotting. I’m just not going to that bar anymore because it’s not what it used to be (during its short run). The two guys Matt and Dave seem to be on the losing end of their fight, and though that’s unfortunate, it’s not too classy to mobilize the more ignorant of their patrons with polarizing inflection as “The Koreans have ripped us off” talk. It kind of reminds me of the McCain rallies where all that remained of his base were hardcore rednecks who wanted to lynch Obama as a terrorist. They even shouted “terrorist!”. It’s a similar vein here, only drunkass fools and frat bros are left to get this “boycott” going. King’s Tap, good luck I really hope you do get this resolved, but at the same time, you lost a lot of mainstream ground by trying to play on people’s distrust of “the Koreans”.
I’m not going bcz the bar just sucks. But you know what these guys remind me of? Especially the jackasses on facebook(”kick Korean asses,those korean business men, bal sac, going to bat, bitches”) remember when you where in college and went to a house party and a bunch of dudes,like 20,were sitting around a keg and nobody else was there. I have this really creepy feeling that these are the same lame guys and they tried pulling that frat boy talk in public, in a foreign country and they got their asses wooped and they are only now realizing how lame and small minded they are.
These kinds of clowns never last.
I agree with the article. Why are the previous owners asking people not to go there? Are we suppose to feel sorry for them, feel their pain and take up the cause in their name for them?That’s their business strategy? IF A McDonalds in Gangnam has it’s rent increased would they set up a web page and ask their customers not to go there? It just doesn’t make any sense at all. Are these real things happening or is someone orchestrating this to spark debate?
I would never, in a hundred years, drag my business though the mud- on purpose- if a business deal went south. Who would ever do something like that? Have these guys no self respect? No pride? They are either children, brain-dead, or simply lack the most fundamental sense of business ownership that even a child posses. It’s painfully hilarious.
I’m embarrassed for them.
Comment quote from Conor: “Do you shoot Lassie after he pulls Timmy out of the well because he didn’t get the time and date stamped by a notary?”
Puahhha! Somebody needs to fish Conor out from his misplaced loyalty! Looking at his smirk and comments, maybe he finally got laid b/c of the bar and he doesn’t want to see Kingstap go? I’m sure his mum is proud of him calling anyone a bitch in a public online forum, which can be forever googled, but seeing that it’s in defense of a BAR I’m sure that makes it perfect for job applications.
–Liz
I’ve been living in Korea for the better part of the last 20 years. I’ve seen lot’s of things come and go with both Korean and foreign enterprises. Mostly go as the nature of commerce here is “flash in the pan”.Not many things have staying power here in Korea as the tide always seems to change so quickly.It’s one reason why large foreign companies hesitate before setting up shop here. However i don’t think i have ever witnessed a “crash and burn” of this depth and speed. It usually takes at least a year for something to commit professional hari-kari.
It is obvious these numbskulls failed on at least two levels, possibly the two most important levels. A) having any resemblence of a business plan. This does not include “cool signs,foreign beer and foosball”. I wonder when they signed contracts and leases if there was a “we’ll do a foreign boycott” clause if things didn’t go to plan. B) Any real exposure to dealing with the public. I have been involved with the service industry for a number of years and there is only ONE asset when working in this field, it is your “Holy Grail” and that is the public. It is not pool tables and fancy import beer or facebook “friends”. It is keeping your brand name in the best light possible at ALL time,and having the savvy to know how and when to do so, especially in bad times like they are having now. I teach entreprenurial mgmt and law. I will use this as a prime case study on how NOT to ever do business in a foreign host country, or your own as well.
Sigh.
A couple points:
- This is a business issue, and should, as everything else in life, not be generalized into a discussion of ethnicity. With 45 million + Koreans, I would say calling all Korean businessmen dishonest would be like calling all Americans Straussian Neo-Cons or all Germans Nazis. That being said, there is certainly a justifiable eyebrow raised when a story of a foreigner getting screwed by a Koreans in Korea (though every type of person screws every other type of person) - due to a number of cultural and historial factors, moral and ethical loyaly in Korea (and with Korean societies abroad) is often a one-way street in the eyes of westerners - one society is a confucian family-centered culture while the other is a Greek-decended community-aware individualist culture. Short form being this: if you are not Korean, there is a limit as to the general standard of ethics that is applied to business dealings with you as per generations of socio-cultural conditioning. THIS issue is perhaps not one of race, but the frustrations can be understood if not empathized with. On the other hand, if you go into business in Iran, you learn the Iranian way, including their ethical model in relation to outsiders.
- The King’s Tap was very comfortable, the staff and managers were friendly and most people I think woudl agree that a great job was done setting things up. If you don’t think that the dart boards and beers count for anything, the combination of effects has not been repeated elsewhere and involved a lot of work. At the very least appereciate the effort even if it wasnt your style. I promise to appreciate your love of Samba.
- I will not be going back since the way the managers hosted me there was what kept me going in the first place. I wanted a taste of home and got it. Regardless of what contracts were signed or not signed, it is amoral to attempt to capitalize off of the ‘intellectual property’ of others without compensation, especially if said compensation was promised (even with a handshake) - not amoral, not illegal.
- Petitioning people to boycott should not be slandered as ‘whining’. I imagine you all still wear Nike since ‘there’s nothign you can do’ about the Indonesian enslavement. That’s the beauty of democracy, grassroots movements and everything truly groovy about what so many suffered for. You boycott what you want and inform your friends about your reasons why - you want to sympathize and join the boycott, do… you don’t agree, don’t. Name-calling over someone’s attempt to exercise, non-violently, power and influence through the only effective avenue they have available is in poor taste, narrow-minded, and you had better hope to whatever god you have that you don’t find karma kicking you in the ass with the same situation. ‘People power’ is a very powerful and under-utilized tool and its appropriate application should be applauded, not criticized.
- Generalizing people in “the Koreans” is not helpful.
I’m sure there’s some stuff I’m forgetting, but it’s time for bed.
Ignore the typos pls
One at a time I suppose:
Susan Young. I was not, nor have I ever been in a fraternity. Oh, and buy a thesaurus.
James H. valid point.
Ell. Buy a dictionary.
Elizabeth. It’s in defense of friends. not a bar. I’m opinionated. Do you think Plato or Cicero cared what people like you thought of them? not that I’m comparing myself to them, it’s just an example. Public forum is where you’re supposed to get passionate about things. otherwise you’ll end up as a tired old British hag that can’t feel human emotion so to get her kicks she replies to online posts of her own volition with nasty words, but nothing of any resemblance to an actual valid argument. pity. (by the way, how can you see a smirk by reading? did you mean to say smug-like behavior? smugness? having a quality of self-entitlement? because really the word smirk implies a physical manifestation of an emotion, feeling, or expression.)
Steve, I especially appreciate your valid points with good supporting evidence. Definitely the most insightful post on this thread. And though I agree with Wilson P. and others that this is not the way to build a successful business plan, I felt it was at least necessary to balance the ticket. After all, when it’s fourth and long in the snow you don’t call a running play up the middle. unless you’re the Jets.
I would like to make one thing clear. I do not in any way condone racism. In fact, I don’t condone any isms. In the hands of humans, absolutes are incredibly dangerous.
P.S. If you don’t get the sports metaphor, tough.
I am curious about the visa situation. I am foreigner (NZ) and for a brief time worked at a Korean restaurant/bar. I was looking into opening a place as a joint venture with a Korean friend. Through all my research found at that it is nearly impossible to work in a bar/ restaurant without being at least married to a korean. There are no Bar visa’s.
With that being said how did these foreigners sign contracts and leases?
I know the laws quite well. I can’t understand what legal ground they have to stand on to demand shares of profits. My guess is that they were in there illegally and hoped that things would work out the way they wanted, and of course it didn’t.
The public racist comments were just dumb and in my opinion is just a sign of probably many other bad decisions that were made by these guys.
Any insight into the visa situation would be appreciated.
Todd
Conor,
How much Korean do you speak? English is my third language. All you can do is try and feel high and mighty like so many other foreigners here bcz you are a native speaker. Want to have this conversation in my language? How about the foreigner working there. He speak ANY Korean? Seriously doubt it. This place is not a “cultural” spot for foreigners. Just another “get piss drunk” on the weekend hangout for foreigner losers like Conor.
Actually, I don’t live in Korea. But Ms. Young, I would gladly have this conversation in another language. Hablas Espanol? Ruskie? the problem is you don’t seem to have much to say. I mean, other than perpetuating your obvious xenophobic feelings toward foreigners (the same ones who put in an enormous amount of time to better themselves and the communities they live in) who like to relax on the weekend. It doesn’t bother me that the spot isn’t cultural, it matters that people have fun, and that you may meet some new ones.
Now, one thing that I would like to apologize for is bringing the language thing into it. Korean is an amazing language and if I return to Korea I plan on taking my studies to learn it much more seriously. it’s really impressive that Ms. Young can communicate in 3 languages. not an easy task. So for that I do apologize. But 3 languages is not that many. I know because I can speak 3 and I’m in awe of some of my friends that can speak 5, 6 languages.
But see now you have committed the same fallacy that I initially had. ad hominem, attacking the arguer, not the argument, is nothing more but a last ditch effort for someone who has nothing else to say. I can’t tell if you’re angry at people who get piss drunk, or maybe just at foreigners. Ms. Young, if you would like to discuss the issue, not your personal feelings, it probably would be more constructive. making generalizations about a group of people without any idea who they are is pretty narrow minded for koreans and foreigners alike. If you do answer, I hope that you take the time to stay on point instead of extolling this “holier than thou” position. Cuz that shot was below the belt. try to keep the gloves up!
I still miss King’s Tap.
I came across this site from a thread on another site (Korean). If these foreigners want to know what’s really happening and can at least read some Korean, they should look at the Naver Netizen Board. There is a group targeting this place and it’s owners. I think we all know how powerful (and hardcore ruthless) these people can be. I’d watch my back (and visa status) if I were them.
Su Jin, I just about checked every search thread on naver… do you have a link?
You need a foreign residence number and an log into it.
Why does the Facebook Board say this place is closed? I was there last night and it was packed. The manager was cool as well. Hooked me and the crew up with some discount drinks and grub. Cool night out.
Todd,
H-1 visa is available to Aussies, NZ, and Canadians. It’s like a working holiday visa similar to Australias’, good for one year but not renewable for consecutive years. You have to apply for it in your own country.
It’s not available to US citizens.The only legal way an American can legally work in a bar is if they are married to a Korean, have ownership of bar and employ a minimum # of Korean staff. You can’t teach on this visa, but it gives you legal right to work in a bar/restaurant and it’s multiple entry as well.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Speaking of bars that lose their leases:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/nyregion/27bar.html?_r=1&hp
Maybe it’s time for the King’s Tap guys to just start all over.
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